I always find the value of collector cars interesting. I find the value of GMMG cars particularly interesting due to the number of different models built by GMMG. I would like to hear to what other enthusiast have to say. I certainly realize that everyone likes something different and I want to start by saying that I like all of the GMMG cars.
Here are my thoughts:
From a logical standpoint I think that the Dick Harrell should be worth the most money. My reasons are because it has a completely different body, special interior, and major performance upgrades such as an LS6 engine. Of course logic and value doesn't always go hand in hand. I remember going to a car show with my dad and seeing a mid-year Corvette with the larger gas tank. That Vette is worth double than a regular Corvette. Who in the world cares about having a larger gas tank? I guess a lot of people do considering the value.
The ZL1 also has major performance improvements such as the LS6 engine. It has Z06 brakes, great colors, and the famous name "ZL1." I for one like the wheels on most of the GMMG cars, so wheels do not matter much to me.
The Dale Earnhardt is very similar to the Berger Camaro. I really don't have a preference on either of them. I like how some of the Earnhardt's were signed by Dale Earnhardt, but I don't like how they are all the same color.
I really don't understand the 35th Performance Anniversary Performance Edition. It is called an Anniversary Edition, yet not all of them are Anniversary Cars? Is that correct?
Anyway, I am just curious to read what you all think. It seems like the ZL1 is worth the most, then the DH, and then the DE. The Berger Camaro's and 35 Performance Editions seem to vary significantly.
Horsepower also seems to be a big factor, yet not everyone likes the high horsepower cars since they don't drive as well.
What are your thoughts?
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Value - opinions/questions
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GMMG ZL1 41
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I ALSO THINK THE DICK HARRELL AND ZL1 CARS WILL BE WORTH THE MOST AND WITH IN THOSE CARS SOME WILL CARRY MORE VALUE THAN OTHERS. MOST OF THESE CARS THAT ARE PHASE 3 CARS ARE ALREADY WORTH SIX FIGURES. SIGHNED DEI CARS SHOULD BE WORTH SOME GOOD MONEY AS WELL. I AM A BELIEVER THAT THE BLACKBIRDS WILL BE WORTH A LOT JUST BECAUSE THERE ARE SO FEW AND THEY WILL NEVER MAKE THEM AGAIN. OVERALL I THINK MOST LOW MILE GMMG CARS WILL BE THE MOST SOUGHT AFTER 4TH GEN CARS BY FAR!
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daytonajim
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Matt only built about 530 (give or take a few) GMMG's. That in itself makes them very collectible. I concur about ZL1's, DH's, DEI's, Blackbird's & high horsepower cars being at the top of the list. Big motor - big money!
Look back @ the COPO's, ZL1's, Yenko's, Nickey's & high horsepower cars from the late 60's & early '70's. They have been bringing big money. (softer than they were a few years ago BUT still good money) I hope Dennis Barker, Mike Carnahan & Matt Berger share their thoughts.
Normally cars reach a low point when they are in the 10-12 years old range. GMMG's are in that window & it's a great time to buy. Just wait a bit as others will 'get-it' & the values will go up. Because of the low total GMMG build numbers we will all be OK - we just have to wait. Future value is one of the reasons I've worked so hard on the Registry - to document - archive & keep the cars alive & well for future generations.
The more people that find out about GMMG, the better off we will all be. I discussed this exact topic with Matt Murphy many times before he asked me to come to GMMG, go through the files while he was downloading photos & other documents for me. We all owe Matt a big thank you. Matt - If it wasn't for you we wouldn't be having this discussion. You built the best 4th Gens. ever. Thanks pal & we all hope things are well with you.
My cars are part of my 401K & my kids are counting on them going up. Rather than a piece of paper we can drive & enjoy every one of my '401k' cars.
My :twocents-02cents: ..... This will be an interesting discussion. Thanks for staring the thread. Jim
Look back @ the COPO's, ZL1's, Yenko's, Nickey's & high horsepower cars from the late 60's & early '70's. They have been bringing big money. (softer than they were a few years ago BUT still good money) I hope Dennis Barker, Mike Carnahan & Matt Berger share their thoughts.
Normally cars reach a low point when they are in the 10-12 years old range. GMMG's are in that window & it's a great time to buy. Just wait a bit as others will 'get-it' & the values will go up. Because of the low total GMMG build numbers we will all be OK - we just have to wait. Future value is one of the reasons I've worked so hard on the Registry - to document - archive & keep the cars alive & well for future generations.
The more people that find out about GMMG, the better off we will all be. I discussed this exact topic with Matt Murphy many times before he asked me to come to GMMG, go through the files while he was downloading photos & other documents for me. We all owe Matt a big thank you. Matt - If it wasn't for you we wouldn't be having this discussion. You built the best 4th Gens. ever. Thanks pal & we all hope things are well with you.
My cars are part of my 401K & my kids are counting on them going up. Rather than a piece of paper we can drive & enjoy every one of my '401k' cars.
My :twocents-02cents: ..... This will be an interesting discussion. Thanks for staring the thread. Jim
Dick Harrell # 9, 18 (Organic Green) #27 (Vic Edlebrock's) - Bobby Labonte Blackbird #38 - Johnny Benson Berger SS #72 - PE Brickyard PR1 (red) - DHPE#4 Brickyard - silver - DEI #54 - 3 of 4 'real' 2000 Daytona 500 GTP Pace Cars
I hope we are at the bottom of the market, but the economy isn't showing many signs of life. I guess the new Camaro and the number of models offered are hurting as well. How do you all like the new Camaro's? I have yet to drive one. I don't have much of a desire to get one right now.
Also, I agree that historically high horsepower car's are worth the most. My only concern would be that some have so much horspower that they don't run well. I have driven C6 Corvette's with 500+ horspower, and they drive wonderful. You can comfortably drive anywhere, yet you still have tons of power. Not all of the GMMG cars run well.
In my experience the GMMG cars tend to be hit or miss. My brother had a high horspower Blackbird that ran terrible. It would kill most of the time when you stopped at a red light. On the other hand my dad has a high horspower Berger that is tuned better and it runs a lot better. Consistency seems to be an issue with GMMG cars.
Also, I agree that historically high horsepower car's are worth the most. My only concern would be that some have so much horspower that they don't run well. I have driven C6 Corvette's with 500+ horspower, and they drive wonderful. You can comfortably drive anywhere, yet you still have tons of power. Not all of the GMMG cars run well.
In my experience the GMMG cars tend to be hit or miss. My brother had a high horspower Blackbird that ran terrible. It would kill most of the time when you stopped at a red light. On the other hand my dad has a high horspower Berger that is tuned better and it runs a lot better. Consistency seems to be an issue with GMMG cars.
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LateBrakeU2
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@NCGuy68 wrote:Interesting question.......
Early on, Up-Graded cars done by Matt M. commanded high $$.
However, I've been informed by more knowledgeable sources then myself that unmolested phase one cars will be more desirable in the future....
Go figure....
I am certainly biased and with you on that one amigo!. I think all the GMMG cars are in a state of dormancy respective to collectability. They are in that window of time where they have been forgotten- the 5th gen becoming a reality certainly did not help. With only 500 or so built they never really went beyond specific dealer networks, so pretty much only known to the hardcore enthusiast. Maybe one day, down the road a bit, they will see a groundswell of interest and be "discovered' by a new buying audience. Probably not going to happen, but if you look at all the folks that held on to their original dealer supercars for nothing more than the passion of the cars themselves, they did pretty well in time. That's why i have mine, certainly easier ways to make money. On the valuations- of course the Intimidators will be worth the most-Dale was arguably the most successful race driver/dealer in the history of Chevrolet. Only reason he did the program with Matt was because he wanted his own dealer supercars like his good freind Don Yenko. Now that's a story waiting to be told!. I think the 5th gen ZL1's did not help valuations of the GMMG versions, and will most likely hurt them for some time. It's all about H.P. to some. Lowest mileage untouched cars always command the most value, always will. YMMV
Early on, Up-Graded cars done by Matt M. commanded high $$.
However, I've been informed by more knowledgeable sources then myself that unmolested phase one cars will be more desirable in the future....
Go figure....
I am certainly biased and with you on that one amigo!. I think all the GMMG cars are in a state of dormancy respective to collectability. They are in that window of time where they have been forgotten- the 5th gen becoming a reality certainly did not help. With only 500 or so built they never really went beyond specific dealer networks, so pretty much only known to the hardcore enthusiast. Maybe one day, down the road a bit, they will see a groundswell of interest and be "discovered' by a new buying audience. Probably not going to happen, but if you look at all the folks that held on to their original dealer supercars for nothing more than the passion of the cars themselves, they did pretty well in time. That's why i have mine, certainly easier ways to make money. On the valuations- of course the Intimidators will be worth the most-Dale was arguably the most successful race driver/dealer in the history of Chevrolet. Only reason he did the program with Matt was because he wanted his own dealer supercars like his good freind Don Yenko. Now that's a story waiting to be told!. I think the 5th gen ZL1's did not help valuations of the GMMG versions, and will most likely hurt them for some time. It's all about H.P. to some. Lowest mileage untouched cars always command the most value, always will. YMMV
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GMMG ZL1 41
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I AGREE THAT SOME BIG ENGINE HIGHER HORSEPOWER GMMG'S HAVE TUNING PROBLEMS. J.D. AND I WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT THAT YESTERDAY. HE WAS FORTUNATE TO HAVE HIS RE-TUNED BY THE GUY THAT BUILT HIS MOTOR AT THE BERGER SHOW YEARS LATER AND HIS CAR RUNS GREAT NOW. SO IF YOU HAVE ONE OF THESE CARS THAT CANNOT IDLE WELL IT WOULD BE HARD TO GET IT RIGHT UNLESS THEY TOOK IT TO VENGENCE RACING OR SOMEONE WHO KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING. I KNOW JIM HAD HIS BERGER 45 CAR WORKED ON AROUND WHERE HE LIVES BY SOMEONE GOOD. PERSONALLY THE NEW CAMARO DOESN'T DO MUCH FOR ME. I DO LIKE THE TECHNOLOGY IN IT BUT THEY ARE BIG AND HEAVY. I THINK I WOULD LIKE MORE IF I DROVE ONE. ESPECIALLY THE ZL1.
Scott, I’m glad you started this thread. I’ve always been curious to see other opinions on GMMG cars.
In my opinion, the DH cars are most significant. I think those should be the most valuable. I agree that the ZL1s should be next in line. I consider all of the other GMMG models comparable… of course; color and options are a factor. I’m surprised with the premium prices for the DEI cars… again… just my opinion. I personally have always liked the Berger cars.
I believe values will increase again. I think it’s important to get the word out on these cars. I know when we go to a local event no one understands what they are. Half the time people think we customized them. Anytime I see someone doing a Berger panel or trying to do a wide body kit, I think it helps. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Regarding the 35th PE models, it was my understanding that not all of them were real Z4C option cars. In my opinion, the real Z4C cars should fetch a higher price but so far that doesn’t seem to be the case which I really don’t understand.
Scott is correct about some of the cars not being properly tuned. My experience has been that some of the earlier cars ran better… probably a testament to when Mike and his guys were there. My BB was upgraded in 2007 and ran poorly. It was frustrating. I’m sure tuning would have helped but by that time I purchased a Z06.
I can respect the new Camaro but haven’t had an interest to get one. I’ve always been a fan of the 4th Gens. I was able to drive the new Berger SS a few years back and it’s an awesome car. It’s just a lot different than our GMMG Berger. One felt more like an old school muscle car and that’s what I like.
In my opinion, the DH cars are most significant. I think those should be the most valuable. I agree that the ZL1s should be next in line. I consider all of the other GMMG models comparable… of course; color and options are a factor. I’m surprised with the premium prices for the DEI cars… again… just my opinion. I personally have always liked the Berger cars.
I believe values will increase again. I think it’s important to get the word out on these cars. I know when we go to a local event no one understands what they are. Half the time people think we customized them. Anytime I see someone doing a Berger panel or trying to do a wide body kit, I think it helps. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Regarding the 35th PE models, it was my understanding that not all of them were real Z4C option cars. In my opinion, the real Z4C cars should fetch a higher price but so far that doesn’t seem to be the case which I really don’t understand.
Scott is correct about some of the cars not being properly tuned. My experience has been that some of the earlier cars ran better… probably a testament to when Mike and his guys were there. My BB was upgraded in 2007 and ran poorly. It was frustrating. I’m sure tuning would have helped but by that time I purchased a Z06.
I can respect the new Camaro but haven’t had an interest to get one. I’ve always been a fan of the 4th Gens. I was able to drive the new Berger SS a few years back and it’s an awesome car. It’s just a lot different than our GMMG Berger. One felt more like an old school muscle car and that’s what I like.
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Blackbird34
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I really believe GMMG cars down the road will see their values rise. The D.H cars would be the #1 on my list. With every tuner shop in the country building Camaro's with their own "package" it seems to really water down the Camaro market at the moment IMO.
With the end of the Firebird forever and the very low number of BlackBirds built, I these cars doing very well in the future. You rarely see a Blackbird up for sale anymore. To me, the Blackbirds were the very last bad ass Firebirds to ever be built.
Like wake00 stated....look at all the modifications that have been copied by 4th gen owners to make their cars look like the packages Matt turned out. Wheels, stripes,exhaust systems, etc... That same group of people is who will one day want a real GMMG in their garage.
With the end of the Firebird forever and the very low number of BlackBirds built, I these cars doing very well in the future. You rarely see a Blackbird up for sale anymore. To me, the Blackbirds were the very last bad ass Firebirds to ever be built.
Like wake00 stated....look at all the modifications that have been copied by 4th gen owners to make their cars look like the packages Matt turned out. Wheels, stripes,exhaust systems, etc... That same group of people is who will one day want a real GMMG in their garage.